Mikhail Mamuta: “Collection of overdue debts must be regulated by strict standards. Mikhail Mamuta: This is an unacceptable story! In a pyramid, you make money from your friends. Lately we often hear that behavioral supervision is being introduced

Both tasks are extremely important, but they need to be solved taking into account the specifics of each.

— I would still separate these two problems. One topic is the regulation of creditors as one of the providers of debt. And the other is collection activity. Both tasks are extremely important, but they need to be solved taking into account the specifics of each. I'll start with the first one. In fact, when they talk about high interest rates on MFO loans, they confuse two different phenomena: microfinance itself and payday loans. It so happened that they ended up in the same regulatory field. Although in the world these are two different types of activities that are regulated differently and perceived differently. Nowhere else will the word microfinance be associated with (payday loans).

Microfinance is, classically, business loans that help the implementation of entrepreneurial initiatives. And payday loans are short-term loans at high rates that give people the opportunity to borrow money for a short period of time in an emergency without deep analysis of the borrower's profile. Therefore, we recently separated these two concepts in the law - soon companies will have different names: MFOs for entrepreneurial finance, or business MFOs, and MFOs for consumer finance.

— Now MFOs and payday loans will only have different names or will they be regulated differently too?

- Of course, they will also be regulated differently, otherwise there is no point in changing the names.

— And yet, the reason that borrowers fall into debt bondage is the extremely high interest rates on loans; the media call rates in the thousands of percent. Are you going to somehow regulate MFO rates?

— Statements that MFO loan rates are not regulated in any way are untrue. Since July 2014, the Law on Consumer Credit has established the same legal regulation for both banks and non-bank lenders (MFOs, cooperatives, pawnshops). Among other things, there is a rule according to which the maximum total cost of a loan (loan) in the corresponding category cannot exceed the market average by more than a third. So there can no longer be talk of any thousand percent in the regulated sector. Although rates on payday loans still remain high, sometimes in the hundreds of percent, it should still be noted that due to strong competition and the need for full disclosure of information by microfinance organizations, they have been declining throughout the past year.

We have implemented a truly systemically significant innovation in the law, which comes into force at the end of March this year.

Another question: is the existing regulation sufficient to control risks in this segment? In our opinion, no, more serious measures are required. And we have just implemented a truly systemically significant innovation in the law, which comes into force at the end of March this year. We'll talk more about this a little later.

By the way, in most cases described in the media, when loan rates actually reached thousands of percent, we were talking about illegal, or “black” lenders who acted in violation of the law outside the scope of regulation. Recently, thanks to our joint efforts with the Prosecutor General’s Office and the ONF, we are learning to effectively combat such violations, but illegal lenders still appear periodically in the regions, which also cannot be discounted when making any decisions.

The main problem with “payday loans” arises when, having taken money for a few days, the borrower falls into arrears and in fact cannot pay the lender within, for example, a year. Then his debt grows to significant amounts, is transferred to collectors, and these unacceptable and even truly tragic stories occur.

Having borrowed 5 thousand rubles, you cannot end up owing more than 20 thousand rubles in interest no matter how long the delay is.

To solve this problem, in December 2015, at the initiative of the Bank of Russia and the government of the Russian Federation, amendments to the law on microfinance organizations were adopted, which come into force in March 2016. These amendments establish a debt limit of no more than four times the total interest debt over the loan amount. To put it simply, if you borrow 5 thousand rubles, you cannot end up owing more than 20 thousand rubles in interest no matter how long the delay is. This measure is additional to the already existing regulation of maximum interest rates in the consumer lending segment, as well as the limit on the maximum amount of penalties and late fees (no more than 0.1% per day) established by the legislation on consumer credit.

Moreover, I will say right away that the first step has been taken, but not the last. We consider it correct and necessary to further reduce this indicator to two, which is generally consistent with world practice. Other measures to limit social risk in this credit segment are also analyzed.

— But will the MFO business remain profitable in this case? Will this market kill it?

“We don’t need any market for the sake of the market.” There are two models of consumer loans: civilized and wild. Civilized is when a microfinance company builds its risk model in such a way that it has three non-returns for every ten payments, relatively speaking. And money is earned thanks to a correctly calculated mathematical model, and they work with debtors within the framework of generally accepted ethical standards, helping them find a solution, and not collecting debts. Such companies, of course, exist in our market; they are mainly large players with understandable shareholders. Although this is not directly related to the size of the business, you can be decent at any scale.

An uncivilized business model is when, on the contrary, only three loans are repaid on time, and a significant part of the income is derived from arrears. This model is bad for both the lender and the borrower, and we will remove it from the market.

— The Bank of Russia quite strictly regulates almost all aspects of banks’ activities. Are you going to regulate the activities of microfinance organizations in the same strict manner in the future?

— In accordance with the Law “On Consumer Lending,” the activities of both banks and microfinance organizations in consumer lending are regulated in exactly the same way. All the same requirements are imposed on microfinance organizations. The Law “On Consumer Lending” applies to them equally.

As for general supervision, we are constantly developing it - be it issues of reserve formation or issues of financial stability.

— But what about the collectors? In the wake of quite justified indignation at the wild methods used by the most rabid collectors, there are calls to radically limit the activities of collection agencies. Who should regulate debt collectors?

— The Bank of Russia believes that activities for collecting overdue debts, regardless of who is involved in this - a special agency, a bank, a microfinance organization or a consumer credit cooperative, must be regulated by strict standards. This requires the adoption of federal legislation. The Bank of Russia believes that, within the framework of the law on collectors, the government will identify a federal executive body responsible for regulating and supervising collection activities.

Graduated from Voronezh State University with a specialization in nanoelectronics and nanotechnology. After graduating from the Faculty of Physics, he received a second higher education in the field of finance and banking. Master of Physics (1997) and PhD in Economics (2010).

Since 1997, he has been working in the field of financial and credit technologies for small businesses and microfinance. In 1997-2000 he worked in the administration of the Voronezh region, dealing with issues of supporting small businesses.

From 2002 to 2014 he headed the Russian Microfinance Center, from 2006 to 2014 - the National Partnership of Microfinance Market Participants (NAUMIR).

Since February 2014, he has headed the Main Directorate for Microfinance and Financial Inclusion Methodology of the Bank of Russia.

Since 2013, he has been Chairman of the Digital Financial Services Working Group of the Alliance for Financial Inclusion. The Alliance for Financial Inclusion is a global community of financial regulators from more than 90 countries. The Digital Financial Services Working Group includes representatives from 50 countries.

Related materials

Interview with Mikhail Mamuta, President of the Russian Microfinance Center

Mikhail Mamuta, who headed the main department of the microfinance market and financial inclusion methodology at the Central Bank, and Ilya Kochetkov, who was the head of the service for protecting the rights of consumers of financial services and minority shareholders, have been changing positions since April 25, 2016, according to data from the Bank of Russia.

“Rotation in the leadership of the Bank of Russia is happening for the first time,” First Deputy Chairman of the Bank of Russia Sergei Shvetsov told Banki.ru. - We consider this step necessary and important, because colleagues will be able to take a fresh look not only at the work of their departments, but also at the activities of the entire block of non-credit financial organizations and even the Central Bank as a whole. This experience is necessary to understand processes and nuances that are often not very noticeable when working for a long time in one place, in one position. Both leaders - Mikhail Mamuta and Ilya Kochetkov - will have a chance to reveal themselves in new roles, demonstrating the best managerial qualities. In the future, the Bank of Russia may continue the practice of rotating top and middle managers.”

According to Mamuta, the service for protecting the rights of consumers of financial services and minority shareholders of the Central Bank today faces tasks that are of great importance not only for the activities of the Bank of Russia, but also for society, as well as the economy as a whole.

“First of all, I am sure that we must consider in a comprehensive manner the protection of consumer rights, increasing the availability of financial services for the population, small and medium-sized businesses, as well as increasing the financial literacy of citizens,” he said.

Among her top priorities in her new position, Mamuta highlights the launch of the “complaint as a gift” project. “With the help of consumer feedback and in close cooperation with the market, we can not only protect consumer rights, but also create a sustainable mechanism for constantly improving the quality of financial services,” he explains.

In turn, Kochetkov, as head of the main department of the microfinance market and the methodology of financial inclusion of the Central Bank, intends to continue working to improve the regulation of the microfinance market. In particular, a large package of regulatory documents will be adopted, related both to the new legislation on self-regulatory organizations in the financial market, and to the development of the principles of cooperative community, the development of requirements for the financial stability of microfinance organizations, and the establishment of financial standards for agricultural credit consumer cooperatives.

“In addition, an important task for us remains reducing the number of unscrupulous market participants, in particular, accelerating the “cleaning of registers” of those who do not comply with legal requirements,” adds Kochetkov. “Also in the immediate plans are the introduction of standards for the interaction of microfinance organizations with consumers of financial services, standards for the activities of microfinance organizations, and the development of requirements for the financial stability of microfinance companies.”

Let us recall that Mikhail Mamuta came to the Central Bank at the end of February 2014 and immediately became responsible for the microfinance market. The Service for the Protection of the Rights of Consumers of Financial Services and Minority Shareholders was created in the spring of 2014, with Kochetkov heading it in the summer of the same year. He first came to the Central Bank in the spring of 1994, over the years he managed to work in various of its divisions and outside the walls of the regulator.

Mikhail Mamuta, head of the Central Bank service, told the INMFO portal about how the work of the Central Bank works on behavioral supervision of the microfinance market, how customer complaints about microfinance organizations change and what to look for when choosing a company in which a person would like to invest their funds. to protect the rights of consumers of financial services and ensure financial inclusion.

When a person applies for a loan from an MFO, what should he know by heart, like the fact that we all know that two and two are four?

To begin with, a person must determine for himself why he is going to an MFO in the first place. From the point of view of “where to borrow money,” we now have a lot of competition, both in the banking market and in the MFO market, where different types of loans have their own consumers. MFOs today are a full-fledged part of the financial system, and companies have their own established line, including not only payday loans, but also POS loans and loans to small businesses, which are issued at preferential rates, but for some reason this work of MFOs remains in the shadow of high rates on PDL loans.

When going to an MFO, a person must understand that if he wants to make some kind of long-term purchase, then it is not worth financing it with a payday loan, it will be expensive and ineffective. But if a consumer needs money for three days, then objectively this is probably the MFO market, or, for example, a pawnshop. Because if a person doesn’t have a credit card that can be used to get a small amount from the bank, then you won’t be able to open it in a short time.

Shouldn't we advise such a client to open a card in advance? After all, we don’t understand when funds might be needed urgently.

There are several “buts” when answering this question. Firstly, you still need to think carefully - do you really need this money, or maybe this purchase is not so important to you? We must always remember that payday loans are money for the most urgent and emergency expenses, when the advantages of the loan outweigh its disadvantages. Second, shouldn't you open the card in advance? It’s worth it, but who thinks about it in advance? In addition, a credit card must also be used wisely - it has its own nuances, such as a limited grace period, a minimum payment, and a high interest rate for cash withdrawals from the card. Therefore, in this case, you also need to carefully read the agreement with the bank. It is easier for many people to contact an MFO, since the companies issue a simple product, with a clear deadline, and a prescribed payment.

- What is the biggest risk in a microloan?

This is an increase in interest on it if you do not repay the loan on time. But to prevent this uncontrolled growth of overdue debt, restrictive measures have already been introduced, and new restrictions will be introduced additionally. It should not be the case that a person, having taken out a loan for three days, becomes mired in debt. Therefore, the Bank of Russia and the State Duma advocate a consistent limitation of the maximum debt amount. It is possible that a number of other innovations will be adopted, not related to the amount of debt and interest rates, but also aimed at protecting consumers.

- What restrictions might these be?

In the Basic Consumer Protection Standard for the Financial Services Market, we set a limit on the number of rollovers for loans. And this possible number of possible extensions will also decrease from year to year, so that a person does not get hooked on the credit needle. But to date, 5 million people have taken out loans from MFOs, and this is a significant number of citizens who, with the help of MFOs, were able to solve their financial problems. We would hate for these people to go to the black market and solve their problems through illegal lending. After all, when dealing with illegal lenders, the risk is higher for everyone - both for the borrower himself and, ultimately, for the state.

- What other measures of influence on microfinance companies has the regulator introduced or plans to introduce?

We constantly encourage companies in this sector to improve the quality of their credit risk assessment. Issuing obviously non-repayable loans only on the basis of a presented passport is a very bad practice. And as far as we can see, most companies, at least large ones, that have the opportunity to invest in their development, are constantly rebuilding and improving their scoring model. And if they don’t do this, then they will face restrictive measures of the Central Bank, and they won’t receive much profit from their work either. Therefore, the spontaneous PDL market, which originated 10 years ago, is now acquiring civilized features. And this happens thanks to the common efforts of self-regulatory organizations, the regulator and, of course, the consumers themselves, who write us complaints and suggestions.

The head of SRO "MiR" Elena Stratyeva said at a forum in St. Petersburg that the number of complaints against microfinance organizations from consumers is small, only 5% of the total number of complaints against all companies in the financial sector over the past year. This is true?

Yes, this is the correct number. Based on the results of the first quarter of 2018, this figure is 5.6%. People complain most about banks, followed by insurance companies. But we must take into account that the insurance and banking market is much larger in volume than the microfinance market, so this is objective. At the same time, over the past year the increase in the number of complaints against microfinance organizations was lower than in the financial market as a whole. And it decreased, including on the most pressing issue in 2026, related to the impossibility of servicing the debt. And when the number of clients served in this market sector increases, and the number of complaints decreases, the reason for this is always one thing - improving the quality of work of companies, including through measures to improve regulation.

There is an opinion among representatives of the MFO market that the introduction of a new product - a loan with a fixed rate, amount and term - will lead to the fact that people simply will not repay this loan, since there will be no sanctions for its non-repayment. But there is also the position of the Central Bank, which is that people will not risk their credit history in order to receive and not return 5 thousand rubles. What is your opinion?

You can take out a loan and not pay it back once. But traces of such behavior remain, because MFOs, like banks, are required to submit reports to the credit history bureau. If the MFO decides to issue a loan to such a “defaulter,” it bears the credit risk. But I think there will be no people willing to lend to such clients. And what is the benefit for the consumer of deliberately not repaying the loan before payday? Well, you once took 5 thousand rubles, deceived the company - and that’s all. Therefore, I think that there will be few people willing to take out such a loan without the intention of paying it back, and then block their access to credits and loans for a long time.

Has the situation with complaints about the work of collection agencies cooperating with microfinance organizations changed in any way recently?

Complaints about collection in the MFO market are the TOP anti-rating of our heroes. Yes, the biggest complaint now is about collection. That is why we support proposals to strengthen control over the work of professional debt collectors. Here we have two sides to the problem. The first is that the part of the collection process that is carried out by the creditor itself is not sufficiently regulated. And we are trying to solve this problem through the basic standard of consumer protection in the financial market. The standard spells out in detail all the rules and requirements for communication with debtors, for the rules for storing information, and for all the tools that are designed to make the procedure for communication between a collector and a debtor transparent for control. This year the standard will begin to work, and it will become easier for us to identify violations and punish them. There is a second side to the problem - this is the so-called unregulated collection. For example, a company issued a loan, and then sold it to an unknown person.

At the same time, the law does not prohibit the sale of debts; it prohibits the company that purchased the debt from collecting debts using collection practices if it is not a collector. Strictly speaking, the company that bought the debt must go to court. But if the debt is sold further down the chain, then at some point, Horns and Hooves LLC will still arise, which may still try to collect the debt through illegal means. And where should the debtor turn in this case? After all, these “Horns and Hooves” are not supervised by either the Bank of Russia or the Federal Bailiff Service. A person can only go to the police and write a statement about threats. But these threats are difficult to prove, and it is difficult to punish for them, except in particularly extreme cases. Therefore, the Bank of Russia proposed, together with the Government, as well as a number of deputies and senators, to prohibit the assignment of debt to those companies that are not subject to regulation. That is, a bank can assign a debt to another bank, an MFO to another MFO, or to professional collectors who are included in the FSSP register. Then if the MFO sells the debt to an unknown person, it will be seriously punished for it.

Collectors complain that the law is very vague about what is considered a call to the debtor. That when a collector calls and doesn’t even have time to get to the point, the person already hangs up, and it’s unclear whether this is considered a call. Will there be any changes in this matter?

The law regulating the work of debt collectors, like any law, develops based on law enforcement practice. When practice is generalized and analyzed, the law may change. But this requires serious analysis, because consumers are also an interested party here.

Let's talk about investing in microfinance companies. They are available to people with an amount of 1.5 million rubles. Is this a worthy investment and is it an alternative to a bank deposit?

Investments in the IFC are definitely not an alternative to bank deposits, because they are not covered by the deposit insurance system. Therefore, this is not savings, but still an investment. It is not for nothing that in this segment the entry fee into the market is set quite high - in order to cut off people with a low amount of savings, who will definitely be attracted by a high rate. And for a qualified investor, this is just as risky an investment as any other. Therefore, it is necessary to analyze what risk an investment in a particular company contains from the point of view of the reliability of this company itself. After all, a person can buy bonds of some plant on the stock exchange? Maybe. And this plant may go bankrupt. Therefore, the risk of purchasing, for example, IFC bonds is exactly the same risk as the risk of any other bond.

Interviewed by Georgy Demidov

Education

In 1997 he graduated from Voronezh State University and received a master's degree in physics. In 2000, at the same place at VSU, he received a diploma in economics, completing his studies in the specialty “finance and credit.”

Candidate of Economic Sciences.

Labor activity

In 1997-2000 he worked in the Administration of the Voronezh Region in Voronezh. He got a job as a consultant, and since 1999 he was deputy head of the department of the Main Directorate for Resources, Consumer Market and Services.

Since 2000, he served as General Director of the State Fund for Support of Small Business of the Voronezh Region.

In 2002-2004 worked at the Microfinance Center Foundation in Moscow. He was director of training and regional development, acting director, director of the foundation.

Since 2004, he has been director of the Russian Microfinance Center Foundation for about ten years.

In 2007-2014 concurrently headed the NP “National Partnership of Microfinance Market Participants” with the rank of president.

Since 2014 he has been working at the Bank of Russia. He got a job at the Central Bank as head of the Main Directorate of the Microfinance Market and Financial Inclusion Methodology, and since 2016 he has headed the Service for the Protection of the Rights of Consumers of Financial Services and Minority Shareholders.

Since 2017 - Head of the Service for the Protection of Consumer Rights and Ensuring the Accessibility of Financial Services of the Bank of Russia.

Hobbies

Loves to travel, including with colleagues in the financial market.

Family status